Episode 4: Prof. Kurt Naber

Welcome to the fourth episode of ISAC's Living Legends in Infectious Diseases podcast series, hosted by Professor Ian Gould.

In this episode, Ian Gould sits down with Professor Kurt Naber — urologist, antimicrobial‑research pioneer, and previous ISAC President — to trace a life shaped by war‑time displacement, international collaboration and decades of scientific leadership. 

From fleeing Poland in a horse‑drawn wagon as a child to singing with the Munich Bach Choir in Carnegie Hall and Leningrad, Naber’s early years were anything but ordinary. He reflects on a career spanning renal lymph antibiotic research, the creation of global UTI networks, international collaborations across Europe, Asia and Latin America, and leadership through major ISAC congresses. He also spent many years involved in cultural, social and musical initiatives in Straubing — a career with impact across both professional and community spheres.

Links

Paul-Ehrlich-Gesellschaft für Infektionstherapie e.V.

Kurt Günther Naber - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Professor Kurt G. Naber is a distinguished German urologist and internationally recognised expert in urinary tract infections and antimicrobial therapy. He is Associate Professor of Urology at the Technical University of Munich and previously served as Head of the Urologic Clinic at St Elisabeth Hospital in Straubing. His research has focused particularly on urological infections, antimicrobial pharmacokinetics, urinary tract infections and prostatitis. Professor Naber has held several senior international leadership positions, including President of the International Society of Chemotherapy, and has made significant contributions to research and clinical guidance in urological infectious diseases.

Thanks for joining us on ISAC's Living Legends podcast. You’ll find sources and guest information in the show notes and at the ISAC Academy.

Follow the show for more conversations with leaders in infectious disease.

Transcript

Ian Gould 0:07

Hello, and welcome to another in the occasional ISAC series on living legends, where we interview accomplished people in the realms of infectious diseases. I'm Ian Gould, professor in Aberdeen University and former president of ISAC. And today it's a great pleasure to interview an old friend and sparing partner, Kurt Naber, who has always impressed me with his indefatigability and his enthusiasm, particularly for international liaison. Kurt, as we'll hear, has led a varied and exciting life. Kurt, do you want to tell us briefly about the early days?

Kurt Naber 0:55

Okay, I was born in May 1941 in Łódź, Poland. And in January 1945, we fled with my mother, grandmother, and brother and sister as war refugees from Poland to Germany in a horse-drawn wagon. I grew up and went to school in Kempten, that is a city southwest of Germany, close to the Alps.

Ian Gould 1:24

So your family were German. It was common pre-war for Germans to live in Poland.

Kurt Naber 1:31

Many German were living in Poland.

Ian Gould 1:34

So you were lucky to get out, I think.

Kurt Naber 1:36

I was lucky to get out and survive this because there were always Russian fighters above us.

Ian Gould 1:45

Yeah, it's exciting times which probably your family could have done without. You graduated, I think you went to study medicine in Munich, is that right?

Kurt Naber 1:57

Yes, from 1960 until 1966. And then I received my medical license in 1968. But maybe interesting, during my time in Munich, I was also engaged in singing in the Munich Bach choir. So something completely different. And with concerts all over Germany and Europe, even concerts in North America, Montreal, New York in the well-known Carnegie Hall, Baltimore, Washington. And also concerts for the first time in 1968 in Moscow and Leningrad. At that time, the name was Leningrad, St. Petersburg. That was the first exchange between Germany and Soviet Union, a cultural exchange. But what was interesting was we get contact to so many students of the music academy in Moscow. And so the young people had contact.

Ian Gould 3:02

Fantastic experience. Why did you uh end up as a urologist with a major research interest in antimicrobials?

Kurt Naber 3:11

Yeah, okay. Maybe I have chosen medicine because my father was a medical doctor and I liked what he did and what he talked about. And after my stay in Munich, after the university, I moved to the University of Marburg and started with my training first in surgery. And after one year, urology, which I finished then as specialist in 1973. And during that time already, I started to collaborate either with surgeons or urologists who did some work on research.

Ian Gould 3:49

Your uh research specialty of uh urology, it's interesting, I suspect, how you became a urologist?

Kurt Naber 3:55

Yeah, that was the following. It came the following. I joined the German Society of Urology during the Congress in 1970. And there I met Paul O. Matzen, professor of urology at the Veterans Administration Hospital and University of Madison, Wisconsin, United States. And he offered me a one-year research and clinical exchange. Therefore, we lived as a young family with two children for one year in the university houses in Madison, Wisconsin, together with so many other young families connected to the university from all over the world. And that was a fantastic time.

Ian Gould 4:38

Indeed. Taught you early the value of international collaboration. I think you gained some uh distinction early on with your research there.

Kurt Naber 4:50

Yeah, he asked me what I want to do, and then he recommended that I should do uh investigation on renal lymphs. And I started in Animal Lab after I have learned it from the nephrologist how to manage it. And because we thought the renal lymph concentrations of the different antibiotics are the best indicator for renal tissue concentrations, because all the so-called renal tissue concentrations published so far were somehow contaminated with urine because you cannot differentiate it.

Ian Gould 5:27

Yeah. And you went on um in later years, in the in the late 70s, I think, uh you became a member of the AUA and started international collaboration with the Society for Infection, Inflammation, and Urology.

Kurt Naber 5:42

Yeah, yeah. Since uh I could present in my research 1972 at a Congress of the American Urological Association and get a prize, and therefore I get known to people who also were interested in UTI. And so we started to work together, and finally we built even a society on infection and inflammation in urology within the EAU as a so-called working group, together with American and colleagues from Canada, and that was a very interesting group to work with them together since many years, up to now.

Ian Gould 6:28

But most of your uh work has been from Straubing. How did you end up going to Straubing?

Kurt Naber 6:35

Yeah, in 1975, I left the University of Marburg and became then head of the Department of Urology of the Hospital St. Elisabeth in Straubing in Bavaria, which is a teaching hospital of the Technical University of Munich, and therefore I became associate professor of urology of the Technical University of Munich. And then I uh was there working as urologist in Bavaria.

Ian Gould 7:06

You had already uh joined the Paul Ehrlich Society, I think, and uh soon became president. That was an important moment for you, I think, in terms of your international associations.

Kurt Naber 7:20

Yeah, uh the Paul Ehrlich Society is an affiliated member of the ISAC, and there I was um a member of since 1975, and when I was then president of the society, we initiated first multidisciplinary guidelines in Germany on uh uncomplicated UTI in adults uh with all the disciplines with gynaecologists and uh internists and microbiologists, pharmacologists, and so on. And this was published first 2010 and now still is updated every year.

Ian Gould 8:02

Yeah. And your association with Paul Ehrlich uh gave you the entry to international collaborations, which you've become famous for. I think your early days with FESCI and such like. Can you tell us a bit about that?

Kurt Naber 8:16

When I was uh the president of the Paul Ehrlich Society, then I had the uh honour to chair the so-called Second European Congress of Chemotherapy. And this was organized by FESCI, and FESCI is the Federation of European Societies for Chemotherapy and for Infection, which are affiliated to ISAC. I had the honour to chair the second Congress in Hamburg with around 500 participants.

Ian Gould 8:52

And that there was collaboration with BICON. Tell me about that. That seemed to be one of the earlier um attempts to bring in um colleagues from Eastern Europe after the fall of the Berlin Wall.

Kurt Naber 9:06

Yeah, that is true that BICON means biennial congresses. Their societies more from Eastern Europe as well, included. And they also wanted to have Congresses every two years, but with this second Congress uh I have could chair, they were combined. The BICON and uh the this European Congress were combined to one Congress, and unfortunately, it was not possible to have this combination later on. That would have been my aim, but unfortunately it didn't happen.

Ian Gould 9:42

Yeah. Can you remember why uh BICON wasn't a continued success?

Kurt Naber 9:48

Yeah, you see, that is always the same. Some persons are very much involved, and when they stop their leadership in the society, they do not look for followers. And I think that is important for societies, and I think ISC is a very good exception, that you have to look for followers and not just say my time is over and I'm not interested anymore.

Ian Gould 10:19

I remember um working a lot with Vladimir Krčméry from Bratislava.

Kurt Naber 10:24

Absolutely, he was very much involved in BICON, and unfortunately, he also died fairly early.

Ian Gould 10:31

Yeah, that's uh European experience, but you're well known as a collaborator, particularly uh with the people in the Far East. How was your international experience first, say, outside of Isaac, and then we'll come back to ISAC?

Kurt Naber 10:45

Yeah, you you're right, but uh maybe this all happens somehow through ISAC. Therefore, I just like to mention uh I started with ISC, and then of course I become interested also in other areas. And I was invited by the Japanese UTI committee in 1989 in Tokyo by its chairman Mosaki Okoshi. And he invited several colleagues from North America, Europe, and various Asian countries to this first international symposium. The purpose of the meeting was to discuss the different study protocol regulations used in the world with the aim to come maybe to an internationally accepted study protocol. And usually the speakers from different parts of the world they presented the studies from their own countries with their protocol. And I tried to combine it in my presentation. I used data of a recent study and evaluated them according to American guidelines, European guidelines, Japanese guidelines. And finally, I could demonstrate there's not much difference between the guidelines. And then the chairman said, okay, now I know that at least one in the West knows the Japanese guidelines.

Ian Gould 12:20

And indeed, you manage to continue uh that work you formed the uh International Commission for UTI.

Kurt Naber 12:26

Yeah, therefore, after the end of this meeting, we founded this international commission. And uh Masaki Okoshi, of course, was the chair, and I was elected as secretary. And during the meeting in the International Commission for UTI, after the 17th ICC in Berlin, 1991, I was elected then as chair of this working group, which became affiliated in 1994 to the ISAC. Then it was decided to organize every two years also uh international symposium close to the ICC.

Ian Gould 13:09

I think that was a very successful uh model, which has been quite well adhered to by other interest groups in ISAC. So that was very important. What about other societies around the world?

Kurt Naber 13:25

Yeah, okay, besides the very close contact to the Japanese UTI committee, especially to the two persons, Yoshiaki Kumamoto from Sapporo. He showed me the Olympic institutions in Sapporo when the Olympic Games were there, and uh Joichi Kumazawa from Fukuoka. I also was very close contact to the Korean Association of Urogenital Tract Infection and Inflammation. This was founded in 1999 with his first president, Yong-Yeon Cho from the Catholic University of Seoul. And also then they were built an Asian Association of UTI and STI, and I was very often uh in their meetings. Last time I was invited and took part in their combined meeting in July 2023 in Seoul, so that was very interesting. But I was also invited by many other Asian societies.

Ian Gould 14:30

Well, indeed, Russian, uh I think, and and a Latin American uh group as well.

Kurt Naber 14:35

Yeah, Russia is between Europe and Asia. And in 2007, they founded a so-called conference in Rational Pharmacotherapy in Urology in Moscow. And since that time, I also was invited to their yearly conferences, and I also went to many other Russian cities. Now, unfortunately, this is not possible nowadays, and therefore in some of the conferences I took part online. I also would like to mention I had good contact to Latin American groups and took part there in 2007 in the so-called Latin group with Jorge Milhem Haddad. He's the chair of the Urogyanecology Division of the Sao Paulo University in Brazil. And uh we had many years very good contact with this group from Brazil, but also Argentina.

Ian Gould 15:39

When did you first get um involved with ISAC?

Kurt Naber 15:43

Aha, ISAC. My first meeting with ISAC was 1973 in Greece under the presidency of George Daikos, a co-founder and former president of ISC. First, the Congress took place in Athens. Then we all went on boats, and on each of the following days, the Congress took place on a different Greek island. After that, I took part in all following Congresses until the 28th ICC 2013 in Yokohama, Japan.

Ian Gould 16:21

That sounds fascinating. Do you remember all the Greek islands or two?

Speaker 1 16:25

Yes, I went to all the Congress in the Greek Islands.

Ian Gould 16:29

A historical note there, of course, George K. Daikos was uh a legendary figure. Uh absolute, absolute Daikos. I died uh age 106 only uh last year, I think, and I think was quite well until the end. A fascinating bit of history, a true inspiration also for the formation of the British Society Antimicrobial Chemotherapy. You had an extended career in ISAC, as I recall when I first joined, you were the the powerhouse behind ISAC.

Kurt Naber 16:59

Yeah, okay. When Tom Bergen, you know, of course, Tom Bergen from Norway was president. I was elected into the executive committee of the ISC for the team, and then became Secretary General 2003 to 5, and president 5 to 9, and of course, then past president automatically from 9 to 13. Uh, during my presidency, the executive committee of the ISC consisted of so many people from all over the world, and to have contact with so many different parts of the world represented by these colleagues, that was a very good experience. Of course, you were included at that time, and also Fiona MacKenzie. At that time, she was executive director, and I also remember Alistair Geddes and of course Farida Moosden very well during that time.

Ian Gould 17:57

I remember these times very well with great affection. We were very privileged to be able to work uh with all these great people. What about the highlights of your ISAC uh activities?

Kurt Naber 18:11

Yeah, okay. Of course, during my presidency of the ISC, I was involved in planning in the organization team of the ICC 2007 in Munich, Germany, just in front of my house, and in uh 2009 in Toronto, Canada. And this was a great experience during my professional life to be involved in this organization and topics and so on.

Ian Gould 18:41

You would have worked with John David Williams, J.D. Williams, as known to his many friends. He was an early mentor to me. What are your memories of him? Of course, he's long died, unfortunately.

Kurt Naber 18:53

Yeah, there are very specific persons, of course, who helped me a lot to get into the ISAC, and therefore I remember them. David Williams, one of the persons, and he also founded the International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents, that is the society's journal.

Ian Gould 19:13

So, Kurt, you've you've had a highly varied and I imagine very exciting and fulfilling career in medicine. Uh, and I wouldn't have thought you had time for much else. Uh, obviously, you were a family man, but you did lots of other things. Tell us a little bit about them in the last few minutes.

Kurt Naber 19:33

Yeah, I was also involved in many non-medical activities in my hometown. For example, I was a member of the city council from 84 to 2006, and particularly I was devoted to cultural events or integration of migrants or environmental issues. For example, we built a society about integration, we founded in 1994, during the war which was between Serbs, Croats, and Bosnians, and so many refugees came to Germany. But also during that time, uh, German descent and Jewish citizens from Russia came to Germany, and all these people needed some contact, but also to become members of the society. And our group, uh which we have founded, was very much involved in that.

Ian Gould 20:35

I think you you've had a formidable problem with integrating people from other countries who've come, particularly through war. Even to this day, I guess there are a lot of Ukrainian refugees.

Kurt Naber 20:47

Yeah, okay. We still have the problem, but now I'm I'm not involved in the first line. Now other people still work in this group we have founded at that time, but now I'm not in the first line anymore. Now I'm more in classical music because we have also founded a group uh organizing classical music concerts in my hometown, and what I like very much, and uh about 10 concerts, and still I'm very much involved to do this with well-known artists bring to Straubing to show them where is Straubing.

Ian Gould 21:25

Well, Kurt, I'm very impressed by all your activities. You've always struck me as a powerhouse, and it's been a great pleasure to speak to today. And on behalf of ISAC, uh, thank you so much.

Kurt Naber 21:38

Okay, thank you very much.